Perhaps the most substantive difference between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton involves style…
With one shunning politics and the other understanding that nearly all of all America’s most successful presidents embraced, thrived, and enjoyed politics from the top to the bottom as a very necessary evil that empowered them and their agendas and made them more effective leaders.
by Brian E. Frydenborg,

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The U.S. is, simply put, not a terribly progressive country today.
An out-and-out progressive can’t win a national election for some time yet, though we do seem to be moving in the right direction. Obama was a moderate who presented himself as such. Hillary is selling herself as a moderate but if you look at her long career she is generally very liberal and very willing to fight publicly in ways Obama clearly disdained. Yet since she has held office she has realized that the Elizabeth Warren style of “TAKE ON EVERYONE AND SHOUT IT FROM THE RAFTERS!” does not get the best results even if one can win a Senate seat in Massachusetts.
It works about well as Obama’s “let’s hold hands with the Republicans so they can weaken everything I am doing or stop my efforts in their tracks” dance.
Even on Iran, it seems Obama caved in and is maddeningly giving the GOP a chance to wreck this deal. I love Warren but the biggest role she has had is as a liberal spokesperson, as she exists as more of a voice on the margins than either anyone with any power to do something or as a senator able to win over colleagues and pass legislation. Mark my words, Hillary will (likely) win as a perceived moderate but once in there she is a fighter and will win some big fights that will move this country to the left and bring the moderates and independents further left on the spectrum. She will do it not by spewing ideology but by delivering results. The non-liberals will not even realize they will be moving left, they will just think they are being practical. But two terms of Hillary will move this country far in the direction in which it needs to go.
Obama, Warren, Kucinich—they all meant well, but ultimately couldn’t work the system. People like Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy, FDR, LBJ, Teddy Roosevelt (TR), even Lincoln all knew how to work the system, cut shady deals, get off their high horse, and compromise politically, getting a heck of a lot done as a result. Take Lincoln and slavery. Lincoln was a political animal in the best sense of the Aristotelian phrase, and though he was always against slavery, he made offer after offer to slaveowners, made deal after deal of incremental half-measures against slavery, up to and including the Emancipation Proclamation and leaving slavery alone in loyal border states, which, rather than evidence of Lincoln not really being against slavery, was evidence of someone who knew when to strike a critical hit against an institution that could not be brought down in one blow just yet. In the end, all these half-measures and wheeling-dealing laid the ground for the total eradication of slavery, most importantly by moving the country gradually in the direction of being ready for just that. TR and FDR and LBJ likewise were exemplary political animals, never shying away from a fight and frequently able to compromise to get results. Because of the first, we have national parks and a government able (it not always willing) to fight big-business and special interests and to protect the common man. Because of the second, we have Social Security, won WWII, and made remarkable progress even during the war on racial and gender issues (the racial and gender-related progress also largely due to his remarkable wife and First Lady, Eleanor). Because of the third, we have Medicare and Medicaid and the crowning triumph in civil rights legislation that built on Lincoln’s and FDR’s earlier work. When you sell yourself as an anti-Washington outsider, like Obama and Warren did, you get to Washington and find out, that, SURPRISE, the city and its machinery does not jump to that tune very well and you end up more as a spectator than a leader.
All Hail Hillary, who will sell herself as an experienced Washington hand able to get stuff done not by preaching utopia and revolution but by gleefully wading into the muck of the swamp of DC.
Our most accomplished leaders (with the exception of George Washington) all enjoyed the game of politics and were political animals, from Lincoln to FDR and LBJ. Warren and Obama did not want to play the game and look at their relative lack of accomplishments. Obama is hardly a failure, though, and especially early in his presidency, he dug the U.S. out of the giant hole into which Bush Administration had thrown the country and signed the Affordable Care Act into law. But that latter, signature piece of legislation was far weaker than what could have possibly passed had Obama immediately thrown the full weight of his presidential bully-pulpit into the fight instead of handing off and delegating the fight to Congressional Democrats. We will never know, because Obama avoided that fight. Until Ted Kennedy had died the mood of the country had significantly worsened after the Tea Party’s unseemly gestation. That absence of leadership could also very well have contributed to some of the vulnerabilities and shortcoming of the legislation that have left and continue to leave it open to legal challenges that threaten to undermine the entire legislation. Still, Obama’s presidency is a historic one, albeit more for symbolism and recovering from the previous president than for its own accomplishments or agendas. A politician needs to play politics to really thrive and get results, and perhaps the greatest difference between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton is that the former sought to distance himself from politics in a form of idealism that was self-defeating, and the latter understands the urgent need to wade into politics, muck and all, in a form of pragmatism that for her is self-empowering.

If Her Most Corrupt and Imperial Majesty, Wanda Wallstreet the Warhawk is a LIBERAL, I am Julius Goddam Caesar.
1) There are no liberals in America 2) Relatively speaking she is not corrupt 3) Your Wanda jibe is simply an opinion (and as a general rule, we do no do opinions here) and you are far closer to being a Trump enabler than Julius Caesar ever was – and you have drunk the Rush Limbaugh kool aid. Here is my challenge assuming you are not a bigot, care about the planet etc and believe that you are some how better than any one else… http://stupidpartyland.com/1/post/2016/04/challenge-seven-point-plan-bernies-devout-suicidal-fns.html and you thought that I did not have answer for people like you. I am in this to destroy the Stupipdarty and I will destroy any one who gets in my way.
I enjoy your blog but to state that “we do not do opinions here” under an article that is nothing but and at the same time linking to another article that is an opinion too… I don’t know what to say so let’s hear from: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/opinion
Also please define “liberal” and how you arrived at the conclusion that in America there are none.
Your statement that “an out-and-out progressive can’t win a national election for some time yet” seems to contradict national polling and favorability ratings http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/bernie-sanders-favorable-rating
Sadly it will most likely come to Trump vs. Hillary or idiot republican vs. republican lite. While at some point in the past I would have supported her now I consider her untrustworthy and therefore unvoteworthy.
What this election cycle is showing is that people are sick of establishment candidates. Hence the surge of Trump and the unheard of rise of Bernie who had no name recognition to speak of before this election. America is not going the right way. Do we want a mad man at the wheel, or do we want Bernie to right the course? Sure we could go to Hillary and keep everything the way it is, but that’s still the wrong direction.
What got me here to post this was your Twitter post: “It’s over, the Bernie or Bust people have gone too far. Time for Bernie to man up”. Even here you have it wrong. Who ever said: It was so manly of you to surrender.? While Bernie’s chances are slim at the moment they are still chances. It is comments like the one I mentioned that galvanizes people and strengthens their resolve to go #bernieorbust.
Hillary as much as she likes to claim that she’s not a “natural politician” is nothing but a politician. Romney was called out on flip flopping and Hillary is not any better. Changing your opinions is not wrong and even commendable if the opinion changes in the right direction, but isn’t a person who held the right positions consistently over decades more trustworthy?
“I am in this to destroy the Stupipdarty and I will destroy any one who gets in my way.” Wow! What a statement. You will not destroy Stupidparty, only Stupidparty can destroy Stupidparty. But since you want to destroy anyone who gets in your way too and I take it from your comments that #bernieorbust people are getting in your way now maybe you could destroy Stupidparty from within. Because, you know, that statement is stupid. You certainly won’t destroy it by alienating a large number of people who are largely aligned with your own political views.
Will respond more later – but re my “No Liberals” comment -being an obvious generalization. But take Bernie -the most “Liberal” politician… in virtually every of other part of the developed world he would be in the middle. I mean Single payer (with an option to buy private Insurance)…. you would have to be extraordinarily ignorant not to understand that it both a far more logical system and would save people a ton of money. Even Bernie allows it to be called a Tax increase -which is moronic – and only appears to be tax increase if one fails to take into account how much Health care costs us now. So even Bernie fans are dopes on this issue. No I do not see anything on the left -especially not the media. This is not to imply that I am to the left of Bernie – I do not allow myself to be labeled. I just like facts and pragmatic economically sound solutions
Being liberal is relative to your environment. In Soviet Russia liberals would be considered very conservative capitalist swine and sent to gulag.
We have to call a spade a spade. If you’re going to provide universal health care you will have to pay for it. The money will come from taxes which will need to be increased. So it is a tax increase. What Bernie needs to bring up more is that since you won’t have to pay for health insurance your higher taxes will be offset by those savings and you’ll be better off.
There is nothing wrong with taxes, the problem is how they’re spent. I understand people disliking taxes when half of them is spent on military. (Conservatives however love the military and hate taxes.) If that wasn’t the case a person who doesn’t like taxes could be labeled a selfish leach.
We are pretty much on the same page. But why allow your self to be labelled at all. You complain about military spending -but progressives never put that concern into perspective… (I forget the precise numbers or if I have even written about it yet- but from memory the USA and its allies spend 1,000% more on the military than China, and x20 compared to Russia. Here is an idea – instead of talking about Tax increases, how about simply saying that you would be supportive of pretty much any tax package if it could be shown to be tackling the present income discrepancy trends, plus providing appropriate non regressive incentives to the vital transition from fossil energy to clean energy. The latter part would be really easy! America is the most Right wing developed Country on the planet, excepting one — It being remarkably similar to the Russians. With Trump as President we would be even more similar excepting that Putin would run rings round the mental midget. Regarding Health Care -Americans spend 50% more than necessary on Healthcare than is rational (yes it as is simple as that) and that all that additional expense buys is the the 44th best Healthcare system – http://stupidpartyland.com/1/post/2015/06/stupidparty-myth-1-usa-has-the-best-healthcare-system-thus-why-reform.html Not only do Bernie and his fans fail to explain the real advantages of the single payer system, they (Bernie) also allowed Bernie to be labelled as a Socialist, by Anderson Cooper ( a Vanderbilt) in the very first debate, which was strategically moronic because no one really understands the term, another big fail on Bernie’s part was his failure to explain why Vermont happens to be the most “intelligent” state in the Union (Versus the most absurd State, Mississippi) -as per the attached charts…. http://stupidpartyland.com/1/post/2015/07/race-to-the-bottom-mississippi-mouse-that-roared.html Finally it needs to explained that all politics is totally corrupted – as politicians are only interested in big checks, and the signers of those checks are the only ones who have influence. On this issue Bernie is actually a distraction, almost a liability – since he is an independents with strong support from the most intelligent State in the Country. So expecting that there will be enough “Bernies” to pass a law for “We the people” is just absurd. Regarding Government -yes it plays a vital role and does many amazing things -but it can also be really bad, especially bad when laws are a passed as pay back to special interests – which is most of the time. It is sort of really frustrating watching progressives lose arguments to nincompoops – because they are using the wrong weapons, and allow themselves to be labeled. The only thing the right can do is to cheat (lie) and shoot the messenger – so we must stop making that task so easy.
Bernie tries to explain all of that but since MSM only gives him only very minimal coverage which is mostly negative the message doesn’t get through to the people. And further if you need to explain something to people who don’t understand what “socialist” means then the work is cut out for you. First teach vocabulary, then logic and then slowly explain that if we all chip in a little bit more then we’ll have to spend a lot less.
The socialist scarecrow really annoys me. What falls under the term? the military, police, fire department, and so on. Even the congress, senate and the whole government including those members who speak against socialism are in fact socialist institutions. In democracy there simply is no other way than to have some degree of socialism.
Labels aren’t the problem, people’s inability to engage in rational debate is. It doesn’t matter whether an argument comes from a liberal, conservative, socialist, idiot or Albert Einstein. An argument stands and falls on its own merit. To discount it because someone with a label made it makes no sense.
Bernie is not a liability. He is someone who started a conversation about issues that need to be addressed. Putting them off simply won’t do. The most important issue of all is money in politics. As long as big business can donate to campaigns politicians will do the will of the big businesses and not the will of the people. Hillary benefits greatly from the system and has no intention nor incentive to do away with it.
Bernie knows politics, he’s been in longer than most, he worked with democrats as well as republicans. He knows what needs to be done and if he has to compromise somewhere so be it, it’s the nature of the beast. The important thing is however to start negotiating from what you want and more and not from position that you think is acceptable to your opposition as the democratic party tends to do.
Sure Hillary would be a better choice than Trump for presidency but that’s damning with faint praise. As long as there is a chance, however small, I’m for Bernie.
This is becoming a circular debate, I think you are missing the point. When some one uses the word Socialist – I do not know what they mean. ( well I do, but they are wrong) This Country is simply not equipped to use the term and this is why people like you (and Bernie) should never allow such labels to be attached to themselves. In the first debate I was furious with Cooper for asking that loaded question, and furious at Bernie for the way he handled it, inability to see the ignorance surrounding the question. But I was the only viewer who really saw what was at stake. I am not particularly interested in why some one prefers Bernie of Hillary – that question has become moot, and making the case for one or other in this forum would imply to you believe that I have not considered all such issues. So why take oxygen out of the room?
btw I explain the whole Socialist conundrum here, and thus hint at how Bernie should have responded. http://stupidpartyland.com/1/post/2016/02/slave-labor-genocide-make-economic-sense-part-1.html But he failed at this point, did not learn and evolved almost to the point of becoming a one trick pony, unable to broaden his message -and unless he can control his Bernie or Bust Crazies, he is in danger of destroying most of his efforts to enlighten Americans -which would be the ultimate tragedy.